ACC Player of the Year and Coach of the Year

[CoeburnCane]

Still not seen your argument that he shouldn't have won it. haha

When did I claim that, ever? I said he was worthy of it, just as worthy as Scheyer/Delaney. You keep forgetting that I thought Delaney was just as good of a choice b/c he's right up there with Scheyer/Vasquez, IMO...look, knowing me, and knowing my disdain for anything VT related, why in the world would I be giving Delaney his due unless 1) he deserved it, and/or 2) I honestly think he was a viable candidate? I'm such a homer I'm giving a VT guy his due, and in the same breath a MD guy his due. But, because I say all 3 guys are worthy of it, I'm a Duke homer b/c the 3rd guy is Scheyer???

Who's being an irrational homer now man...talk about embarrassing. The only thing I said in the beginning was that all 3 were worthy, that Vasquez wasn't a "slam dunk" choice. You got your schwartz in a wad and got peeved b/c I didn't say Vasquez was the ONLY choice. Sorry to break it to ya, but you're looking a lot more biased here than I.

[R0cketer]

Gotta agree on this one....the bias part

If someone loves a team or a player or a coach, and they get themselves convinced that people off of that team are the only options, slam dunk choices, its kind of bad to then turn around and call someone else a homer.

Not saying that he isn't player of the year, honestly haven't watched enough to give a greatly informed opinion. Just I don't often find cases where there is one person or player that is so clearly up and above any other options. You do find them but when the person expressing that opinion is a fan of that team, its a bit cloudy

[Biggin]

Here are the stats, instead of just claiming someone is bias and acting like that matters, here are the cold, hard facts.

(PPG, APG, 3P&, RPG, BPG, SPG)
Vasquez:
19.6 6.3 .382 4.6 0.3 1.6
Scheyer:
18.9 5.2 .399 3.5 0.2 1.6
Delaney:
20.9 4.2 .320 3.6 0.1 1.2

[Biggin]

im far from a Maryland fan, but he was the only logical choice for ACC POY

[CoeburnCane]

Here are the stats, instead of just claiming someone is bias and acting like that matters, here are the cold, hard facts.

(PPG, APG, 3P&, RPG, BPG, SPG)
Vasquez:
19.6 6.3 .382 4.6 0.3 1.6
Scheyer:
18.9 5.2 .399 3.5 0.2 1.6
Delaney:
20.9 4.2 .320 3.6 0.1 1.2

I'm sorry but in terms of pure numbers--that doesn't look like a "slam dunk" choice to me. 0.7 ppg, 1.1 rpg, and 1.1 apg and .1 bpg (Vasquez over Scheyer) doesn't make it "clear cut" or "slam dunk". It makes it a tough choice.

Plus, Delaney beat Vasquez/Scheyer in ppg by 1.3/2.0 respectively. He had to be in the conversation.

Then there's the argument (that is valid) that Scheyer split stats with two of the better players in the ACC in Singler/Smith. If you took Scheyer and put him on MD or VT, does he get the #'s that he had a Duke, or does he get better since more of the shots/opportunities would go to him? It's a valid question. Some people say yes, others no. That had to weigh in on the voting...which means it's not a "slam dunk".

Overall, I'm saying it's just a tough choice between the 3. Vasquez does indeed deserve it, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm not a huge fan of arguing over who is/isn't POY as it doesn't mean anything ultimately--basketball's a team game, people remember titles/championships more than POY's.

[Biggin]

I'm sorry but in terms of pure numbers--that doesn't look like a "slam dunk" choice to me. 0.7 ppg, 1.1 rpg, and 1.1 apg and .1 bpg (Vasquez over Scheyer) doesn't make it "clear cut" or "slam dunk". It makes it a tough choice.

Plus, Delaney beat Vasquez/Scheyer in ppg by 1.3/2.0 respectively. He had to be in the conversation.

Then there's the argument (that is valid) that Scheyer split stats with two of the better players in the ACC in Singler/Smith. If you took Scheyer and put him on MD or VT, does he get the #'s that he had a Duke, or does he get better since more of the shots/opportunities would go to him? It's a valid question. Some people say yes, others no. That had to weigh in on the voting...which means it's not a "slam dunk".

Overall, I'm saying it's just a tough choice between the 3. Vasquez does indeed deserve it, but it's not a no-brainer. I'm not a huge fan of arguing over who is/isn't POY as it doesn't mean anything ultimately--basketball's a team game, people remember titles/championships more than POY's.

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

when a team relies on one player as much as UM does, it makes it easier for other teams to develop ways to stop him, because as we've found it, stop Vasquez and Maryland is easily beatable.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

[CoeburnCane]

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

No, that's your opinion. Just like the converse is my opinion. It may open up the court for Scheyer, but they take shots away from him that he would otherwise take and possibly make. His stats could look better if he had 2-3 more ppg that Singler/Smith pull away from him in the context of Duke's offense.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

When it's by slim margins, as it is. Your numbers don't show a guy blowing out the other two guys in stats, it shows slim margins on average. Plus, per your #'s...he leads in apg/rpg/bpg, not every category. Delaney leads in ppg, Scheyer in 3pt %, and Vasquez/Scheyer are equal in steals/game.

[R0cketer]

thats absurd
that is NOT a valid argument at all. Smith and Singler make it easier for Scheyer to get open shots and better opportunities to score, thats facts.

when a team relies on one player as much as UM does, it makes it easier for other teams to develop ways to stop him, because as we've found it, stop Vasquez and Maryland is easily beatable.

when Player A leads the other players in a POY race in every stat category but one, how is it not the obvious choice?

I'm kind of confused. This is the argument was used in comments about all-lpd players earlier, and then it was one way, now its another

Its as always, clouded

[pvfan]

Show the stats in ACC play only and it's a large spread. Just like the LPD Rock, Hubbard>Vanover, Vasquez>Scheyer.